Gal Maria Rivers Interview

PROJECT WWHA: How does your armhair or other body hair affect you in your current daily life?

CAL: These days, I am way less self-conscious about my body hair than I used to be. I am approximately 0% self-conscious about my arm hair, which I wish I could go back and tell my younger self was possible. I hardly ever even think about my arm hair, which is really a relief because there are way more important things to think about.

I have PCOS (polycystic ovary syndrome), which is probably why I have so much body hair. I was only diagnosed with that recently (in my early 30s), and I went my whole life not knowing why I have so much body hair and much of it feeling bad about myself.

These days, the only body hair I remove is:

-my facial hair, which I shave every 1-2 days (but I occasionally let it grow out longer, to get comfier with it and to destigmatize it)

-stray eyebrows occasionally (I sometimes get them waxed to shape them, or pluck a few hairs from the middle. But I am not embarrassed if I have a few hairs between my eyebrows anymore)

I love wearing dresses, and it doesn’t matter to me that my legs are visibly hairy under them. I sometimes notice people’s eyes on my legs, possibly noticing the hair. I try not to assume whether they are having positive, negative, or neutral thoughts. I know people have a mix of reactions, and I generally don’t know which is happening in a given moment. Even if they have a negative thought, who cares? Or what if they have a negative thought but then later they think about it and realize it actually made them feel better/more normal about their own body hair? Even though body hair is typically associated with masculinity, I feel like a relatively feminine person so for me, my body hair is feminine. Hairy legs under a bright, floral dress worn by a woman – it’s a pretty feminine thing, or at least that’s how I look at it at this point.

I remember one time in my early/mid 20s, I noticed a friend who was giving a presentation had armpit hair. Apparently it made a big difference for me to see that as just a normal thing, since I still remember that moment occasionally. So I think I’m paying it forward by living my own hairy life confidently or relatively confidently.

PROJECT WWHA: What’s the first time you remember noticing your own arm or body hair? How are some of the different ways it come up in conversation?

CAL: The earliest hair shame memories I remember was about unibrows. I can remember tweezing my unibrow since I was in middle school, maybe earlier. I don’t remember the details of the feelings about it, but it’s a significant thing at such a young age to already feel wrong and unfeminine in such a prominent way (literally right above my eyes where people usually look when talking to me), and editing myself (tweezing) to try to feel more normal. Tweezing my eyebrows used to hurt, but I did it so many times and so (relatively) early on that now I don’t even feel anything when I tweeze there. Maybe there’s some symbolism there about changing and numbing ourselves to deal with societal expectations.

PROJECT WWHA: Can you remember a time when you spoke to yourself in a negative manner in the mirror because of what you saw your body look like?

CAL: I used to be so self conscious of my body, in so many ways. There are many aspects of my body that don’t fit with societal norms, and I used to cry looking at myself in the mirror. I got over most of it by talking more openly about how I was feeling, and taking artistic and authentic photos of myself and posting them to the internet, in spaces made for showing normal bodies and discussing body image. I’m not saying that that is the solution for everyone, but for me, showing what I was most ashamed of helped me to get outside perspectives and got me out of my head, and it changed everything for me.

PROJECT WWHA: If you removed it, what changed for you and made you decide to leave the hair to grow back?

CAL: In high school, I bleached my arm hair so it was less visible. (Though bleached arm hair is still pretty noticeable!) I remember in one high school class, a classmate asked me why my arm hair was blond unlike the rest of my hair. I don’t think they were trying to be mean, but just asking a question and not recognizing the insecurity behind the situation. I paused for a few seconds, not sure what to say, and a friend made some quick comment that made the situation pass. I don’t remember what my friend said, but I think they understood I was insecure. It was such a small moment, but it stuck with me.

I probably shaved my arm hair sometimes back then too, but I mostly remember using a depilatory cream, which basically melts off hair. I kept doing it until a few months into my first year of college. I remember it smelled so awful and it had some fragrance added that was supposed to mask the smell. Every once in a while over 15 years later, I will smell that masking fragrance in another product and I have such a negative association with it. I always hid the fact that I was removing my arm hair and I remember worrying that my college roommate would notice the smell in our dorm room. I don’t know if she ever did.

At some point that year, I stopped removing my arm hair and just let it grow back. A few months later, I had my first relationship. I remember later being grateful that I had stopped removing my arm hair, because when I did it, it would grow back really fast, so if I wasn’t able to remove the hair frequently, it would come back and I was self-conscious about that intermediate growth. I would sometimes spend a night or two in a row staying at my (now ex-)girlfriend’s dorm room or she would stay in mine, and because I wasn’t doing arm hair removal, there wasn’t any maintenance to keep up with. It was a relief. And it just didn’t matter that I had arm hair.

After that, my arm hair pretty much became a non-issue and I don’t remember being self-conscious about it. There was one moment I want to share about that. I used to be married. The day before my wedding, Loved One A passed along a message from Loved One B. Loved One B was wondering if I was going to remove my arm hair for my wedding, and wanted to mention it in case I forgot about it. However, Loved One B thought I might not appreciate them bringing it up to me, so they asked Loved One A to ask me. My response was that I wasn’t going to remove my arm hair. No part of me had considered removing my arm hair for my wedding, because it had been about 3 years since I had removed my arm hair and I just wasn’t self-conscious about it. It was a non-issue. I wasn’t exactly mad that the topic had been brought up, though I wasn’t very happy about it either. I had been so self conscious about my arm hair in the past that I had subjected myself to the effort and terrible smells of those hair removal creams (among other hair removal or bleaching or hiding efforts), and so to get over the self consciousness but have someone else bring it up to me in this way (let alone through a messenger because they guessed I wasn’t going to be happy to hear about it from them directly)...something about it felt wrong. I have a beautiful photo with Loved One B from my wedding, just the two of us, and my arm hair is very visible in it. I don’t think about my arm hair in any of the rest of my wedding photos and I probably wouldn’t have noticed it in that photo either if it hadn’t been for this being brought up to me the day before my wedding.

These days, I know there are actually a LOT of people who are neutral about body hair or even are really attracted to body hair on women. So now I actually sometimes get really positive attention about my body hair, including my arm hair. It’s such a 180 degree change that it is pretty shocking.

Also, I’ve noticed that my attraction to women is often sparked by body or facial hair. (I’m queer, specifically pansexual, which means I date people of any gender–similar to bisexual) I don’t exactly seek out hairy women, but the very first time I ever even realized I was attracted to women was my first year of college, when my eyes fell on the extremely hairy legs of a gorgeous classmate of mine. Something about seeing a woman being so raw, authentic, and natural just really piqued my interest and in that moment I realized I was attracted to her and therefore, not straight. Another time years later, I noticed that a gorgeous woman I was talking to had hair on her upper lip. In both cases, I wouldn’t say I was specifically excited about the hair itself, but my attraction started building when I noticed it. I think being attracted to some women as a result of noticing their body hair or facial hair helps me because I can viscerally understand the experience of being into a hairy woman. So it makes it easier to understand the people who are into my body hair. And also I see that there are many people who are neutral about body hair (not specifically into it, but not turned off by it), and that neutrality has healed a lot of my insecurities too.

PROJECT WWHA: What did seeing the other women with arm and body hair on Project WWHA do for you?

CAL: Seeing women embracing or ignoring their arm hair or body hair is so healing. It’s just a completely normal thing that most women have and some women have more of. So seeing it be treated neutrally or positively is so helpful. And a page focused on normalizing something so specific as arm hair may seem, well, very niche or specific, but the fact that I have many stories and thought about my arm hair specifically and my journey to feeling confident about it shows that it is an insecurity that definitely affects people.

PROJECT WWHA: What tools do young women need to break free of oppressive social beauty constructs?

CAL: I would encourage everybody to try to surround themselves with role models and media which show a range of body types and diversity in general. If you notice that the people you are trying to be friends with all look similar and impose social norms that prevent or punish deviations from these norms, you are probably being limited in your growth and being hurt in the process. There are actually a ton of people who look different, dress different, express their gender differently, and think differently. Seeing that variety can really really help.

I would also encourage anyone who is self-conscious about themselves to find little ways of brightening their day or making them feel better about themselves. For example, I have been wearing a hair flower almost daily for about 15 years. I started doing this because I just needed to look in the mirror and see SOMETHING that I could smile about. Back then, I was so self-conscious but at least there was a pretty flower behind my ear, and that had unexpectedly large effects on my confidence, in the moment and over time!

Another fun thing is to get body-safe markers (which can be removed with makeup remover) and draw something pretty on your arm. If you are afraid you don’t know how to draw well, remind yourself that the point isn’t to be a perfect artist but just to have fun expressing yourself. And you can get stencils, follow along with a simple tutorial or reference image, or draw simple doodles. If you saw something cute drawn under your arm hair, isn’t it possible you might feel better about that hair?

Finally, I would suggest finding people you feel comfy opening up to and sharing how you are feeling. When you hear a friend express that they are self-conscious, instead of insulting yourself too, what if you mentioned that you are self-conscious too but trying to embrace your looks and feel better about yourself, and suggest supporting each other in that process? So often we are self conscious about things that people don’t even notice or don’t care about. And if people are genuinely judging you for something you can’t change that isn’t hurting anyone, is that really someone whose opinion you need to care about anyway?

PROJECT WWHA: What advice do you have for young women who are just noticing their arm or body hair at this point in their lives and are feeling different?

CAL: We have a lot of options about how we show ourselves and some options of how we change or don’t change our bodies. Women who want to remove or hide their body hair absolutely can. It’s up to them. But I think it’s important to consider what societal messages have shaped how they perceive their options and their expectations. And just because someone sometimes removes their body hair doesn’t mean that they always have to. People can experiment or take baby steps like going a day or two without removing some body hair they are self conscious about and just trying it out. And even if they feel self-conscious, it doesn’t mean that they will always feel self-conscious. I would never have believed how non-self-conscious I am now, even about things I was so insecure about before. Confidence takes practice.

I would recommend people think about what exactly is underlying their insecurities and what assumptions they are making, and why the insecurities feel so big. For example, a stream of thought might look like this:

I have a lot of body hair → People will see my body hair and think it looks bad and that I’m weird →I’m not going to have friends or get dates → I will die alone

If it were true that having a lot of body hair meant that you’re going to die alone, that would indeed be a serious concern. But the reality is that a lot of prospective friends or dates are neutral about body hair. Some people even really enjoy body hair in people they date! So being alone is definitely not guaranteed by having a lot of body hair, even if you don’t remove it or don’t hide it. Furthermore, if a person only wants to date you if your body had way less hair than it does, is that really a good-fit person for you? For one thing, you do actually have a lot of body hair, so someone who hates body hair just doesn’t really feel like a person who loves YOU, right? And I think that people who are really limited in who they are attracted to are risky as partners. They may make you feel self-conscious if you deviate from a narrow kind of look, and all bodies change as we get older, so it just doesn’t seem like a person we can trust our hearts (and bodies) with long-term either.

Essentially, I try to live authentically and find people who are into me. People who aren’t into women with body hair can self-select out, and that helps me find good fit partners.

PROJECT WWHA: What could Project WWHA do better or differently in your opinion to reach more women who need a positive message of arm hair acceptance?

CAL: I think if you partnered with some celebrities or influencers who have above-average body hair and did a campaign where they embraced, decorated, and showed off their arm hair, it could make a difference. Body hair trends are a thing (which is kinda wild when you think about it!), so I don’t see why there couldn’t be a change made with this. I remember that Miley Cyrus once dyed her armpit hair with bright colors, and the media attention that got probably had an effect on destigmatizing armpit hair and showing people that this stigmatized hair could be an artistic or expressive focus, and one that people can embrace. That gives me hope for other arm hair too. Maybe women who have tattoos under their arm hair could do artistic pics or videos of their tattoos + body hair, and others could draw on themselves in body-safe markers and have fun with it. I think the photoshoots you do are likely to have a large effect, both on the people who are in them and those who see them! Thank you for what you are doing!